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(no subject)
(no subject)
Zee is not saying that everyone has to abandon writing about MCR and FOB and PatD and start writing Travis/Gabe Saporta epics or about the sweet, sweet love of Ray Toro and Matt Cortez, or else we'll put you on our big list of racial fail.
She's saying that, considering the number of guys who are of color in bandom, considering their actions in the real world, the amount of fic is not the same as it is for other guys in bandom who are like them in all ways except they code as white.
The pattern of racial difference is not unique to bandom, and no one's going to pry Patrick Stump from your hot little fingers. But that thing where people try to say, "Disashi is too mysterious to know," or "I'm afraid if I write Alex Suarez wrong the fen of color will fall on me and tear my fannish reputation to shreds."? That shit is not true and has got to stop.
(no subject)
I was making a reply to someone else who might have inferred that I have never experienced any kind of 'racial mistreatments.' I clarified that I have and then stated my own opinions on the matter.
And I'm not saying that you are wrong wrong wrong in what you are presenting. But it is my personal opinion that people take issues like this too far, and this is coming from someone who is quite familiar with what it feels like to be "that brown girl."
But that thing where people try to say, "Disashi is too mysterious to know," or "I'm afraid if I write Alex Suarez wrong the fen of color will fall on me and tear my fannish reputation to shreds."? That shit is not true and has got to stop
I have to disagree with you when you say this shit isn't true. People ARE afriad of writing someone of color and getting certain racial characteristics wrong. And not without reason, too. That is one factor of why there are less fics about GCH and other non-white bandom members, but that's not because these people are racist towards them. It's because they're scared of hurting feelings if they get something wrong, and the fear is tlegitimate. Let me give you an exapmple of something similar: Just a couple of weeks ago, someone wrote some religious Panic fic. The author took a stab at writing Brendon as a young mormon boy, and they got it wrong. Apparently, some Mormon readers proclaimed the fic to be too "Catholic." So what happened? People pounced and exclaimed how offended they were that someone got it wrong, and you can't deny, it can be very uncomfortable to be caught in a situation like this as a writer. The same potential for offense exists when dealing with race in fics.
(no subject)
No, of course, people can get it wrong and offend people. But life means getting it wrong sometimes. And what people don't seem to understand is that, 99% of the time, if they get called on something like that, all they have to do to prevent a lot of people getting mad at them is say, "I was wrong. I'm sorry I hurt you." and either change the problematic thing or make a note about how it was wrong. And then there's no dogpiling. People may even say, "Good on you for recognizing you fucked up."
But the fear that I've seen expressed very rarely seems to be, "Oh no, I shall hurt the feelings of my friends of color" and more, "OMG, I'll get caught in the middle of a wankstorm." They don't seem to realize that (a) they can largely control whether or not there's a wankstorm, but also (b) fans of color are really not all sitting around, waiting for them to screw up so they can accuse them of being evil racists. That whole "the anti-racist cabal will come after me with pitchforks and torches" thing isn't true, and that's what people need to get over.
(no subject)
I wish it would, but I don't think it will.
fans of color are really not all sitting around, waiting for them to screw up so they can accuse them of being evil racists
True, but people are always jumpy on the issue of race. And I have heard/seen comments made by an offended person that can be very discouraging. People may not be "waiting" to attack a fic with all the examples of improperly used racial references, but when such things happen, they are often pointed out in a manner that reflects the hurt of the offended, and are communicated in such a way that it becomes discouraging for an author to ever want to try the whole racial aspect again.
(no subject)
So if someone is racist in their portrayal of a character in a fic, it's the fault of the person who is offended by the racist portrayal? Did you seriously say that? Is that honestly the point you're making? That it's not the writer's responsibility to write a non-racist fic, but it's the fault of the person who's offended to not remark on it?
People aren't jumpy on the issue of race. Some people refuse to believe that there is an issue when it comes to race. Maybe people should be more concerned with the person that was hurt and offended by the racist portrayal then by the feelings of the person who actually created the racist piece that hurt and offended. Maybe the fact that we censor those who try to point these things out is the problem. Maybe the fact that I comment on one out of every thirty or so racist things that I see and hear because I don't want to have this same damn discussion over and over and over again, and find that this is true for nearly EVERYONE I KNOW shows that there is a big damn problem.
And, you know, it doesn't help anybody, people of color or not, to tell them, BY SAYING NOTHING, that it's OK to create works that express racist sentiments. Nor, quite frankly, do I think it's OK to blame the person who's offended.
(no subject)
No, no, of course not. Look, I'll make my point one more time. It is my opinion that the lack of bandom fis centered around COC is not a result of racist authors and writers. That's all I've been trying to day. So, imo, saying there is a "race issue" meaning authors and writers have "problems" with people of a certain race and don't wish to write or read about them... Well, I don't think that's true. Saying there's a "race issue" because people are afraid to write about POC and then get it wrong... Yes, that's a problem. I already admitted that this shouldn't be the case, but it is.
And then, people want to get overly offended if someone simply gets something wrong racially in a fic they wrote. I mean, come on, obviously if someone wrote a hugely racist fic, then yeah, people should get upset and cause tension. But if it's something little, like using "cliche" lingo or stereotypical themes concerning a race that members of the race don't like... Well, that's not grounds, imo, for people to get really upset.
And the reason why I feel this way is because I've dealt with too much shit in RL with people who got offended about something racial and then made a huge deal about it when there really, truly was nothing to get mad about in the first place.
Some people refuse to believe that there is an issue when it comes to race
Okay, I know that. But that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING has an underlying racial issue. Not enough GCH fics? GASP, IT'S RACISM! Really. I know that obviously some people disagree, but I won't be swayed on this point. I have already admitted tht yeah, obviously there are some who are racist in bandom, but that doesn't account for the lack of GCH fic as a whole. People who are interested in bandom just don't have a thing for those guys in slashy/fic situations, what can we say? It's just a matter of taste. That's how I see it.
And that's not me being ingorant of race and refusing to accept that this world has racial issues.
(no subject)
I'm not a person of colour; I'm among the whitest girls you'll ever have seen, and I live in a country with an overwhelmingly Caucasian population. If I see something and speak up, it's not because I'm "oversensitive" or "angry" or any other word that gets thrown at PoC in such debates: I speak up because it's so blatant that even I spot suspicious phrases with ease, without even trying.
1. The fact that you don't think there is any race problem in Bandom does not, alas, prevent that from being the case. I assume you're a girl, which does make it likely you can immediately recognise sexism (mostly because it's really hard not to notice that hand on your boobs, or hear that joke about stupid sluts). But you're not a PoC; you have little experience in understanding structural racism, which is embedded in everything -- out in the world, in here: in fandom.
2. "But if it's something little, like using "cliche" lingo or stereotypical themes concerning a race that members of the race don't like... Well, that's not grounds, imo, for people to get really upset."
a) Are you sure you're not pointing at a highly theoretical reaction that hasn't actually happened? Have you really seen more than one lone piece of fiction being criticised because of this, and this alone? Your vague wording, at least, hints at you drawing attention away from the actual issue.
b) There is no way to make this not sound harsh, apologies in advance: You have no right to decide what may or may not, what can or cannot upset other people. Not the same thing, but how would you like to see your justified anger and hurt dismissed after said hand on your boobs, said stupid slut joke one male colleague told the rest of a bunch of colleagues, all of them looking at you pointedly and grinning?
(no subject)
so, unless the writer is dressing william up in klan gear and having him organise the neighbourhood lynching, it's all cool?
(no subject)
They don't. (http://witchqueen.livejournal.com/429727.html?format=light)
And they will continue not to until and unless we can communicate how to properly react which is (1) Write about CoC as best you can, doing as much research as seems necessary to get it right and (2) Expect that you will sometimes fuck it up and (3) When you do fuck up, say I'm sorry, amend the work, and figure out what you did wrong.
Throwing up our hands and saying white people are too stupid or too intrinsically racist to learn better leaves everybody worse off.